How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business: A Conversation with Chris Brogan

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Do you refuse to settle?
Do you want to do things your way?
Do you have a different way of looking at the world?
And, most importantly, are you looking for a way to make your weirdness an asset?
If you answered ÛÏYesÛ to any of the four questions above, then IÛªve got a great book recommendation for you.
And the author of said book (you know him well) is this weekÛªs guest on The Lede:

Chris Brogan ÛÓ New York Times best-seller and the founder of Owner Magazine.
In this episode, Chris and I discuss the following, all of which are central themes in his new book The Freaks Shall Inherit The Earth:

Who is a ÛÏfreakÛ?
Why are some freaks successful while others struggle?
What are some practical ways we can add more discipline to our daily lives?
What must a freak absolutely, positively master to succeed?
What is on ChrisÛª list of things to not do?
What is the difference between fitting in and belonging?
Why do so many of us not do the things we already know we should be doing?
How do you take the first step (and keep going)?
What action does Chris want users to take after they finish the book?

And that one time Chris and Brian Clark went rogue during a panel presentation ÛÓ and the important lesson Chris learned from Brian (even if it took Chris many years to actually act on the advice).
Listen to The Lede Û_
To listen, you can either hit the flash audio player below, or browse the links to find your preferred format Û_

React to The Lede Û_
As always, we appreciate your reaction to episodes of The Lede and feedback about how weÛªre doing.
Send me a tweet with your thoughts anytime: @JerodMorris.
And please tell us the most important point you took away from this latest episode. Do so by joining the discussion over at Google-Plus.
The Show Notes

The Freaks Shall Inherit The Earth: Entrepreneurship for Weirdoes, Misfits, and World Dominators ÛÓ by Chris Brogan
ChrisBrogan.com
@ChrisBrogan
Trust Agents: Using the Web to Build Influence, Improve Reputation, and Earn Trust ÛÓ by Chris Brogan and Julien Smith
Social Media 101 ÛÓ by Chris Brogan
Google-Plus for Business (free webinar and book) ÛÓ by Chris Brogan
The Impact Equation: Are You Making Things Happen or Just Making Noise? ÛÓ by Chris Brogan and Julien Smith

The Transcript
Click here to read the transcript
Please note that this transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and grammar.
The Lede Podcast: How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business
Jerod Morris: Welcome back to The Lede, a podcast about content marketing by Copyblogger Media. IÛªm your host, Jerod Morris.
Are you a freak? By that I mean, do you have a different way of looking at the world? Do you want to do things your way? Are you not a fan of settling or compromise? Yeah? And are you looking for a way to make your weirdness an asset? Then IÛªve got a great book recommendation for you.
ItÛªs the new one by Chris Brogan, entitled ÛÏThe Freaks Shall Inherit The Earth: Entrepreneurship for Weirdoes, Misfits, and World Dominators.Û I ordered this book the day that it came out, I read it, and I got a lot out of it. So I asked Chris to come be a guest on The Lede, and he graciously agreed.
In this episode of The Lede, I will play for you my interview with Chris, in which we talk about a number of subjects including why some freaks are successful and others struggle, the difference between fitting in and belonging, and much, much more. ItÛªs really an action-packed 15 minutes.
Oh, and that one time he and Brian Clark went rogue during panel discussions.
Interview with Chris Brogan
Jerod Morris: Are you someone who really wants to blend in and be part of the background, or do you secretly have a wild side and are awaiting the battle cry? This is the question posed in the intro of the new book ÛÏThe Freaks Shall Inherit the EarthÛ written by a long-time friend of Copyblogger, Chris Brogan, who joins me on this episode of The Lede.
Chris, welcome to the show. HowÛªs the book release going?
Chris Brogan: ItÛªs fun. IÛªm enjoying it. I just found out the day that we were recording this that we signed global rights for China, so thatÛªs kind of fun.
Jerod: Wow! Congratulations.
Chris: Thanks.
Jerod: Now, have you had books translated in China before?
Chris: I have. IÛªm very lucky that people were kind enough to buy Trust Agents in China and Korea, and a few other countries that were kind of fun and interesting. And then strangely, Social Media 101 and Google Plus for Business, my very-specifically-about-social-media books, were translated everywhere. My books that are about business usually donÛªt get as much of an opportunity.
Jerod: Well, very cool. Congratulations on that, and before we jump into some of the themes of the book, whereÛªs the best place for people to get their hands on a copy?
Chris: Just go to callingallfreaks.com. ThatÛªs probably the easiest way to do it.
Who is a ÛÏfreakÛ?
Jerod: All right. So letÛªs talk about a few themes, and it seems like the first thing we should do is define this bookÛªs audience. So who are the freaks that youÛªre speaking to in this book?
Chris: These are people who want to take some kind of ownership of their life. TheyÛªre the people who have almost a tattoo-level passion about something in their business or whatever, that theyÛªre just into this thing.
Sometimes theyÛªre the employee-preneur, theyÛªre the CEO of their own cubicle. Other times they run their own company. And itÛªs just the kind of people that really want to do the kind of work they want to do with the people that they want to do it, and in the way that they want to do it. ThatÛªs who I think a freak is.
What are some freaks successful and others not?
Jerod: I really enjoyed the book, so I definitely urge people to go read it. I really liked it. My favorite chapter was number 2, which is ÛÏThe Wild Colors and the Solid Spine,Û which is a great chapter title, by the way. And this is the chapter where you explain why some freaks are successful, and why some others are not. What keeps a lot of freaks from achieving their goals?
Chris: I have to tell you. So first off, itÛªs funny because I had to change the subtitle of that chapter because I had said something about what makes some freaks successful, and other freaks live in their momÛªs basement, or beggars Û_
Jerod: (Laughs)
Chris: Û_ or something like that. And my girlfriend Jacqueline said, ÛÏYou know, thatÛªs not really polite.Û
Jerod: So you changed it to ÛÏstrugglers.Û
Chris: Strugglers, because maybe youÛªre a late bloomer or something. And itÛªs funny. First off is that a lot of times people are kind of cuckoo but donÛªt realize that it has to have some kind of end value, and thatÛªs one of the first mistakes that some freaks are having trouble with.
ThereÛªs a difference between someone whoÛªs a freak about, I donÛªt know, collecting pens. There could possibly be a business somewhere in there if youÛªre the kind of person who really loves pens and wants to help other people find the right pen for the job, or something. ItÛªs a little less likely if you collect toenails. So you know, youÛªve kind of got to find that. So thereÛªs sort of a ÛÓ do you know something, or are you into something that someone else might possibly be into, and if so, is it the kind of thing where they might somewhere along the way pay you for it.
And then along the way, there are all these missing ingredients that cause us not to do what weÛªre doing. Discipline. We worry about fear. There are all kinds of challenges with people saying that they donÛªt know what to do, so that they donÛªt know where to go next. There are a lot of things that get in the way, and so I just tried to knock as many of those down as I could.
What are some practical ways we can add more discipline to our daily lives?
Jerod: And you mention discipline, and IÛªm glad you mentioned that, because that was the section of this chapter that I liked the most, probably just because itÛªs been something IÛªve been working on myself. So I wanted to tell you, one of your tips ÛÓ you have that six-step framework for building discipline ÛÓ itÛªs start and keep a streak going. IÛªm proud to say IÛªve mostly succeeded doing that. IÛªve been posting something IÛªm grateful for every day since I read that section with the hashtag ÛÏfreak streakÛ on Google Plus, and IÛªm up to 25 now.
Chris: Wow!
Jerod: So thank you for inspiring that. I think it really does help. Can you explain that really quickly ÛÓ why thatÛªs important? Just to kind of start a streak and commit to it, and how that can help you kind of get that framework for discipline?
Chris: Well, discipline, if there was sort of a small, little piece of a formula for it, it would sort of be ÛÏexperience + training + timeÛ or something like that. ItÛªs one of these deals where as you learn some stuff and you train yourself to learn how to do it a little bit better over time.
The plus time part of it, keeping a streak going, a lot of times somebody will say to me, ÛÏIÛªm really crappy at public speaking,Û and IÛªll be like, ÛÏWell, how often have you been on a stage?Û And theyÛªll be like, ÛÏTwice, and both times were horrible.Û And I was like, ÛÏWell, how many other things in your life have you done only twice that you were really damn good at?Û You know?
Everything that we do in life that weÛªre pretty good at, weÛªve done a bunch of times, whether or not thereÛªs practice of some kind in between. I mean, Yo-Yo Ma, quite famously ÛÓ somebody said, ÛÏYou still practice four hours a day? Why do you practice four hours a day? YouÛªre Yo-Yo Ma.Û And he said, ÛÏIÛªm Yo-Yo Ma because I practice four hours a day.Û And so to me, thatÛªs the deal. Keep something going. And if itÛªs worth doing, itÛªs worth doing daily.
What must a freak absolutely, positively master to succeed?
Jerod: And part of the problem, I think, people have with that is finding the time to do it. And so another quote you have from the book that I loved is:

Let me be clear. You will not inherit the earth, nor will you be successful at most anything, if you canÛªt figure out and master time.

And you go on to provide some really great, essential time-mastery hacks. Which ones help you the most in your daily life?
Chris: Oh yeah. First off, there are a couple of things.
IÛªll tell you one of the first things I always tell people that always blows their mind, is I only schedule my days 40 percent full. And people are always mind-blown by this. ÛÏWhat? I mean, weÛªre all so busy!Û And I always say, ÛÏYou donÛªt run your car at 100 percent all the time. You donÛªt run your computer at 100 percent. ThereÛªs no other system that you run in your life at 100 percent. So why would you run your day at 100 percent? That means one sick kid ruins everything. It crashes down. You forget your passport, so youÛªve got to go back to your house before you go to the airport. I mean, if you donÛªt have the time to do these kinds of things, this is why you make many more mistakes.
So another thing that people do is they waste their time. ItÛªs really funny. We treat money as if itÛªs super-precious and we hoard it when we shouldnÛªt, and we treat time as if itÛªs absolutely something weÛªve got an endless supply of and we waste it, when we donÛªt have that kind of time.
So to me, I have a huge list of things I donÛªt do. I have a huge list of thingsÛÒI mean, even this podcast. You said, ÛÏHey, I want to interview you for the thing,Û and I said, ÛÏGreat, if you do it briefly.Û That was the first thing I said. IÛªm protecting my time here. So I think those things are important.
I think always having some kind of a plan. Any time you go into anything without a plan it stinks, and itÛªs not to say that you need to be sort of anal-retentive the whole of your life. But even going to the beach. If you have a small, little checklist itÛªs going to save you from the ÛÏOh yeah, I forgot sunscreen,Û moment. So I think that there are just a lot of opportunities to do a lot more with time.
Jerod: ItÛªs a good thing you said that, too, because I had about two hoursÛª worth of questions I could have asked.
Chris: Well, sure! ThatÛªs the thing. I listen to a lot of podcasts which feel like they seem to have all the time in the world, and I feel like we donÛªt even have all the time to listen in the world. How do we have all the time to do these interviews?
Jerod: No, itÛªs a great point.
What is the difference between fitting in and belonging?
Jerod: So shifting gears really quickly. Early in the book you talk about the difference between fitting in and belonging, which I thought was really interesting. And itÛªs an important distinction within this context of ÛÏfreak.Û So whatÛªs the difference between fitting in and belonging?
Chris: To me, the whole thing about fitting in versus belonging is all about this whole sense of shaving off your unique edges and hiding what makes you who you are. ThatÛªs what fitting in means.

Fitting in means ÛÏstop doing those things that make you kind of a weirdo.Û
Belonging is when you find the weirdoes who totally get what youÛªre into.

If I head out to a group of people and I say something about Burpees: ÛÏEveryone loves them!Û Û_ Cross-fitters and Spartan race people all totally get that joke, because Burpees are evil. And if I make a joke about ÛÏroll your wendy-20 save against stupidity,Û the Dungeons and Dragons kids know what IÛªm talking about. And we love that moment. We love that moment when weÛªre kind of amongst people who know what weÛªre doing.
Somebody recently was having trouble with their iPhone, and they just pulled the iPhone out of their pocket, turned it to one edge, and blew on it like they were trying to blow the dust out of the video game cartridge from the old 1980s video games, and I was like, ÛÏWow.Û He was like, ÛÏMy people here.Û And so itÛªs in those moments when we find people that we belong. ThatÛªs who we really want to do business with.
So what I really have deeply in my heart is that thereÛªs just a whole other way to look at everything that weÛªre not doing right now, which is very much that weÛªre worrying too much about fitting in, and weÛªre not worrying enough about belonging with the people we want.
Why do so many of us not do the things we already know we should be doing?
Jerod: Another great quote of yours that I like because I think itÛªs so practical is, ÛÏYouÛªll find that a lot of what I preach comes off as common sense, yet whatÛªs most magical about it is that so few people practice these skills.Û Which really echoes some advice that Darren Rowse gave at Authority Intensive recently, when he essentially said that he doesnÛªt have any secrets to share, but itÛªs that success was more about doing the things we already knew we should be doing. Which sounds so simple, but why do so many folks seem to struggle with that?
Chris: First off, weÛªre addicted to distraction. We love thinking ÛÏMaybe someone else knows a better way to do this, and I should learn that, because IÛªm probably not smart enough to do it.Û ThatÛªs a huge one.
Another is that we quite often have this feeling that weÛªre not good enough. ThatÛªs one for sure.
And another is just that we get lazy, and weÛªre complacent. We think, ÛÏOh yeah, this is good enough for right now,Û and we love ÛÏgood enough.Û
ÛÏThe enemy of the great is the good,Û is one of those old quotes thatÛªs totally and utterly true. But what I find is that the things that I do daily, and the things that I do work on that are the least sexy things that I do, are what are yielding the most results. And that the more I do those things, the more IÛªm seeing a great result from them. And IÛªm getting into it.
The things that turn me on the most, kind of my new personal porn, are things that everyone else has done and dismissed years ago. I love e-mail marketing more than any other tool. I love Evernote and adding tags to things in Evernote that IÛªm actually going to refer to, as opposed to these people who just store stuff like chipmunks with big mouths.
How do you take the first step (and keep going)?
Jerod: Now, you mentioned something interesting. You said one reason why people donÛªt do what they already know they should be doing is they donÛªt feel like theyÛªre good enough. And maybe that kind of goes along with this idea of ÛÏfreaksÛ and feeling like maybe you donÛªt fit in. Having to find that belonging. How does someone who feels like that who isnÛªt quite sure, but thinks differently, how do they take that first step to start doing those things? How do they start to believe that they are good enough?
Chris: One of them is to start thinking about where you feel most comfortable with people, and where can you see yourself letting go of some of your fear. ThatÛªs a huge thing to think about. Where do you feel that when you talk to the people, you can actually exhale as well as talk? ThatÛªs maybe a good starting point.
And from there, what can you do to be part of that community in a way that you can actually serve them? I actually got that advice from Brian Clark.
He and I were on the stage. We were in this horrible panel. I shouldnÛªt be mean to people. But the person interviewing us was not especially good. She didnÛªt know us very well. She didnÛªt have any real questions of any great value. So we just decided to turn the answers. Everything she said, we just turned the answers into what we felt like talking to each other about.
And one of the things Brian said was, ÛÏI see, Û pointing to me, ÛÏI see you kind of running all over the place, chasing every fly ball thatÛªs out in front of you,Û and at that time in my life the opportunities were coming at me faster than I could handle. And he said, ÛÏYou know how I parse these? I just think, ÛÏWhich one of these is the best for my community? Which one of these will give me the best opportunity to help the people that have given me their attention?Û And I thought, ÛÏWow! ThatÛªs a great sorting hat.Û
And then I proceeded to not do that for five years, because every bit of advice Brian gives me, it takes five years to actually execute. But I always do it.
The other thing too is if youÛªre starving, itÛªs not the right time to start thinking about what kind of garden to plant. You have to eat first. And so I always say to people, ÛÏSeeds are for planting, and sometimes for eating.Û And if youÛªre in the ÛÏstarvingÛ mode, thatÛªs not when to make these decisions. At that point, just eat. Go get a job. Go do something. Go get some cash. Then figure out where you want to be when you grow up.
And thatÛªs kind of where it gets trickier. I tell people all the time, Take small bites. Try not to let your failures mess other people, but just get into failure. And the more you can get into failure, the more you can learn from it, and start to reset and build better stuff.Û
What action does Chris want users to take after they finish the book?
Jerod: Wow. ThatÛªs great advice, Chris. My final question for you. This time has gone so fast.
Chris: Wow, Jerod!
Jerod: So the final section of the book is called ÛÏTake Action! Fight Crime! Save the World!Û Complete with exclamation points, which I love. And that first phrase is really the crux of the section. Take action. What action do you want people to take after they finish your book?
Chris: I laid it right out. This is a frustration Julian Smith and I have had since the first book. We wrote ÛÏTrust AgentsÛ together, and we wrote also ÛÏImpact EquationÛ together, and weÛªve both written books since. And hereÛªs what happens. You can see because of Twitter.
IÛªll see somebody and theyÛªll say, ÛÏI just finished Trust Agents,Û now reading ÛÏCrush It.Û ÛÏJust finished ÛÏCrush It,Û now on to this.Û They read books as if itÛªs bingo. And theyÛªre not saying, ÛÏNow taking an action based on the book.Û
So for years all the books that Julian and I have ever written, in any form or fashion except for my book of poetry, all have instruction in them. And so in this case, I went even crazier and said, ÛÏIÛªm going to make a chapter like, Û÷do this damn stuff!ÛªÛ and it kind of recounts whatÛªs in the rest of the book.
But I want people to declare that theyÛªre a freak. I want people to define what makes them successful. I want people to figure out some skills that are going to help them get there, and figure out the framework that goes in it. And then there are just all the other steps of what it takes to do the book.
And I think that really, the next to last thing in there is, I tell people, ÛÏbe ready for the bad times,Û because thatÛªs the other thing that screws up everybodyÛªs attempt to be a freak. They somehow forget that maybe thereÛªs going to be a bad moment, and they somehow cash it all in when that bad moment hits.
Jerod: Excellent advice, Chris. I really, really did enjoy the book. Thank you for writing it, and I encourage everybody to get it. Thanks for your time, and sharing some of your thoughts with us on The Lede.
Chris: My utter pleasure, Jerod. Thank you.
Jerod: All right. I will talk to you soon, Chris.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Lede, and my thanks again to Chris Brogan for taking the time to join me. Once again, if you are enjoying these episodes, if youÛªre getting a lot out of them, we sure would appreciate a rating or a review on ITunes. Tweet about us, e-mail the show to a friend. We would appreciate any way that you can help us spread the word. And donÛªt forget, if you like Stitcher, you can now subscribe to The Lede on Stitcher. Just go to copyblogger.com/stitcher, and you can add us to your playlist.
All right. WeÛªll be back next week with another episode. Until then. Talk to you soon, everybody.
# # #

*Credits: Both the intro (ÛÏBridge to NowhereÛ by Sam Roberts Band) and outro songs (ÛÏDown in the ValleyÛ by The Head and the Heart) are graciously provided by express written consent from the rights owners.
About the authorJerod MorrisJerod Morris is the Director of Content for Copyblogger Media. Get more from him on Twitter, Google+, or at JerodMorris.com.

The post How Freaks and Misfits Can Succeed in Business: A Conversation with Chris Brogan appeared first on Copyblogger.

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